Lost is a Mind Game

[losty09]

well.... the cost of living seems to tie in here

Ecko's life on the island was very tied into his faith. In some ways, he was a lot like locke, in that he was constantly struggling. He wanted to be a priest, and yet he became one in the first place to further his drug sales. He wants to be a man of god, and yet he does not hesitate to kill people. He killed in his past, he killed on the island. He wants his brother's forgiveness, and yet he doesn't believe he has sinned. It seemed that in a way, eko was being punished the same way that locke was punished by the island. Except his was a little more permanent.

[losty09]

Don't you jsut love how i keep resurrecting this thread ?


Desmond cannot change fate. Fate is a predetermined purpose or large event, which is unchangable. He can, however change the future, which is ever changing. If my fate is to die, for example, i can prolong that death up to a certain point, but i cannot change the fact that i will die. Ultimately, if it is my fate, it will happen. However, if i am desmond and see myself eating cornflakes for breakfast tomorrow, i can change that and eat cheerios instead, because that is the future, not fate. Esentially the episode seemed to be suggesting that, no matter what desmond did in his past, something would lead to his split with penny and his arrival upon the island. Whether he prolonged it for a day, a week, or a month, it would still happen. Therefore, charlie's death can be prolonged, but cannot ultimately be stopped.

however, i don't think the producers would kill someone after stating they would die. It's anticlimactic, and it isn't like them. So obviously the show's major theme includes fate, and perhaps a way in which fate can be changed. On the other hand ,that is a contradicition of terms. If it is fate, then it is unchangable. That's where it gets murky

I think Desmond's task now because finding a way to defy fate. Possible ending to the series? The characters find a way to defy fate, go back to the beginning, don't get on the plane? Or is their life set in stone? Can fate be defied, can desmond accomplish it? Can the other losties accomplish it?

oooh Could all these flashbacks be leading up to this main theme of fate and choice. Is it possible that the losties can go back, can live it all again and find a way to change fate?

[Charlies_Chick_1201]

Wow...I just went through and read all these posts, and it seems like you guys read my mind... I'm not sure theres much more I can say... /bringing back to date ((:P))...I definitely Desmond has more to do with the plot than what we were first led to believe. His fate was to be on the island, and he couldn't change that. But, you're right Losty09, what if there was a way that they could go back and change their fate?

And I most definitely think there is a line here between Science, faith, and fate... Personally, I like Locke's charactor for the same reasons as you it seems... I do think of Locke as a sort of center point of the show. Even though hes not the main focus or the most popular of the show, it is about his faith, and fate ties in with that... Basically, because of faith, they have their ways of fate...

Going back to read, this, I'm not makign any sense at all, but I just thought I'd share what I thought... and seriously, if they have that way of getting back and going back with fate, I hope its not any time soon I've spent to much of my life seated on my couch watching Lost to go back and leave things like this...

[losty09]

Excellent thoughts We do seem to be in agreement.

so, my grand fate theory completed. All together in one, hopefully coherent post. Some of it is repeated, so bear with me.

Desmond cannot change fate. Fate is a predetermined purpose or large event, which is unchangable. He can, however change the future, which is ever changing. If my fate is to die, for example, i can prolong that death up to a certain point, but i cannot change the fact that i will die. Ultimately, if it is my fate, it will happen. However, if i am desmond and see myself eating cornflakes for breakfast tomorrow, i can change that and eat cheerios instead, because that is the future, not fate. Esentially the episode seemed to be suggesting that, no matter what desmond did in his past, something would lead to his split with penny and his arrival upon the island. Whether he prolonged it for a day, a week, or a month, it would still happen. Therefore, charlie's death can be prolonged, but cannot ultimately be stopped.

however, i don't think the producers would kill someone after stating they would die. It's anticlimactic, and it isn't like them. So obviously the show's major theme includes fate, and perhaps a way in which fate can be changed. On the other hand ,that is a contradicition of terms. If it is fate, then it is unchangable. That's where it gets murky

I think Desmond's task now because finding a way to defy fate. Can all the characters find a way to defy fate, go back to the beginning, not get on the plane? Or is their life set in stone? Can fate be defied, can desmond accomplish it? Can the other losties accomplish it?

Could all these flashbacks be leading up to this main theme of fate and choice? Is it possible that the losties can go back, can live it all again and find a way to change fate? Maybe a possible ending to the series. In some way they are able to go back and live it all again, and have a second chance. Maybe they can change their fate. Maybe the reason why pushing the button is "the greates thing desmond will ever do" is because it will lead him to discoveries about his life, and the lives of his fellow castaways. Maybe the island is special, in that it can give them another shot at life.

Perhaps all these guilt plagued hallucinations are preparing them for this. They can rid themselves of the guilt, of the mistakes, by doing it all over. Maybe it's not purgatory, but maybe it is a place of moving on. They all seem to die when they come to terms with their guilt of mistakes of their past. Maybe upon dying on the island, they are reborn, as desmond seemed to be following the implosion, with a chance to relive and change what they were confronted with on the island.

In essence, they would all have lived, crashed, and maybe eventually died on the island. But they would be reborn with a chance to do it all again, to not make the same mistakes.

this ties in with, charlie's writing FATE on his fingers in season one, and locke's continued phrase of "we all get a second chance on this island, a new life ". Let me know what you think.

[Red Matrix]

No Fate But What We Make

[SailingAway]

Which came first, the science or the faith? Even history is plagued with not knowing. The only thing that ever seems certain is science because it can be proven. Faith on the other hand is left up to us and is commonly overlooked because of our inability to believe with out seeing.

There always has been a battle between believers of faith and science...and there always will be. The only problem is, even with the aid of a though provoking show such as 'Lost,' we'll never know what's right/wrong (or even like Losty9 says) until, well, the end.

[losty09]

I don't think it's about right and wrong when it comes to science or faith. If anything, the show has shown us about them in cooperation with each other, and the end will contain elements of both, or can be explained in terms of both. I used to see it as a battle, with Jack and Locke being the representative players. But it's not so for me anymore. I see them more as merged entities, opposed but together at the same time. Both are a means of justification, both can be used to explain almost all mysteries of the show.

[SailingAway]

However both can be turned against eachother just at the notion of which one is in charge (i.e. Ben when he was captured).

Of course it's a battle. Just look at real life with religious freaks and the secular society that wants to get rid of Christmas! Faith vs. Science, round 2007...ding!

[losty09]

Yes that is completely true. But you can have science and faith. Some of the greatest scientists of all time were also fiercely religious. I'm saying is, the show is trying to meld the two together. Faith and science i believe, can co-exist. My own personal beliefs are really a mixture of the two. Besides, tv does not model real life necessarily.

Alos, remember that faith is not necessarily religion. You can have faith in a religious sense, or simply in a sense of belief, or as in fate and destiny. Is not the idea of Intelligent Design a cross of science and religion. Evolution happened, but god intented it to? (This is not my personal belief, simply an example).

I agree that it is an age old battle, and it will never be solved. But it doesn't have to be a conflict.

[Red Matrix]

Quote from "Nacho Libre" : "I believe in Science"