The Brainwashing

[losty09]

Wow, so that was weirfo.

anyway, anyone have screencaps? I saw "God loves you like he loved Jacob." This intrigues me because, we are still trying to figure out who the "Jacob" was that made a list that Jack wasn't on.

i also think it said something like "We are the cause of our own suffering", or something like that. So yea, ,screencaps?

[losty09]

ok so i watched it back, and something struck me. Remember Alex told Kate they were going to kil sawyer like they were going to kill karl? What if she meant, not literaly, but in the sense of the brainwashing. That one phrase, "We are the cause of our own suffering" seems to suggest they are trying to make karl believe that his suffering is his doing, that he has been bad. "God loves you like he loved Jacob." Well, God loves you, would be a nice way of telling someone that they will be forgiven and redeemed. The theme of the video, with all the flowers and stuff, seemed to be rebirth. Basically what i am getting at is that the brainwashing was a way of killing off rebellious karl, and giving him rebirth in the form of docile, brainwashed karl.

oh and, there was a picture of alvar hanso on that tape, which would suggest at least some level of cooperation with Dharma is still maintained, even if they are not one and the same.

Annnd i think Karl has been in such trouble because he took the fall for Alex letting Claire out of the Staff.

[cassiel]

Jacob from the Bible (thanks to Biblelands Project at Bible Picture Tour: Homepage)

Jacob was the younger of two brothers, twins, born to Isaac and Rebekah. His name was later changed to Israel from which the name Israelites came from. After tricking his brother and father Isaac into giving him the blessing as the first-born son, Jacob married Rachel and works for Rachel's father for some twenty years.

Jacob gets news that Esau his brother is coming and ``wrestles with an angel of the Lord" all night. Jacob is afraid that his brother will repay him for what he has done.

Lessons we can learn from the life of Jacob:

Jacob did not always do the right thing, yet he seemed to be in touch with God -- and surrounded by visions, dreams and even angels. The lesson we can learn from this is that while we will blow it in live many times -- meaning we will not always be perfect -- that God is there to listen to us and help us if we call out to Him.

Excerp from wikipedia on Jacob's Ladder:

Jacob's Ladder refers to a ladder to heaven described in the Book of Genesis (28:11-19) which the biblical patriarch Jacob envisioned during his flight from his brother Esau:

Jacob left Beersheba, and went toward Haran. And he came to the place and stayed there that night, because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones of the place, he put it under his head and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it! And behold, the LORD stood above it [or "beside him"] and said, "I am the LORD, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your descendants; and your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and by you and your descendants shall all the families of the earth bless themselves. Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done that of which I have spoken to you." Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place; and I did not know it." And he was afraid, and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."

[cassiel]

In essense, brainwashing is completely erasing the former persona and replacing it with a new one. Death & rebirth. Looks like Dharma doesn't just passively recruit people into their ranks.

I wonder if they intend to brainwash Jack if he fails to 'see the light'.